Curse

alexander92 · Apr 26, 2010, 07:22 PM // 19:22

What do you think about the upcoming dervish and paragon updates.Do you think they will rework some skills/atributes to actualy make these professions worth playing,will they get op (like ritualists did and mesmers seem to become after the next update)?Any guesses about the modifications?

I'm just curious since i totaly love my dervish but right now dervishes are completely ignored in pve and not worth taking over sins/wars/rangers.Paragons have a similar situation besides (of course) the use of the imbagon.

FoxBat · Apr 26, 2010, 07:56 PM // 19:56

Dervs just need AoHM adjusted, but will probably get a ton of other random crap that still makes them inferior. Or they could split some avatars and make them absolutely insane I guess.

I would like more paragon stuff to just work with all allies (aka pets/spirits) to give them a powerful niche role, but I expect them to get other random skills that might finally push more people to bring n/p MMs while the primary remains ignored. Then again they could make a volley-type AoE spear attack and suddenly spears would see alot more use.

Essence Snow · Apr 26, 2010, 08:39 PM // 20:39

I would expect to see motivation line adjusted.....and I have no comment on Dervs as I feel the one I have is useless and cringe to see one in my party even myself.

Watermelon Tacos · Apr 26, 2010, 09:06 PM // 21:06

how do you find out about what is getting updated?

Gennadios · Apr 26, 2010, 09:12 PM // 21:12

The only part of the paragon that needs a massive reword is motivation, mostly because the conditions to trigger the positive effects of most of the chants are so general, that the skill is all but guaranteed to trigger when not needed for 7/8th of the party.

Command and Leadership have their share of useless fluff, but they're far stronger than Mot.

I'd love to see the Derv skills be modified to fit in with the original concept of a close quarters nuker, but to be viable in HM they'll need to up the range as well as damage for most of the skills, as well as nuking AoHM and improving e-management.

NerfHerder · Apr 26, 2010, 09:16 PM // 21:16

There has been some really good ideas for dervish here.

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/d...t10434067.html

As for Paragons, I would like to see the motivation line tweaked a little. I dont think they should out heal a monk on its own, but it would be nice if they could synergize better with an Imbagon. Something that would make taking two Paragons as effective as taking two Monks. They could even buff the command line a little for PvE. As it stands now Command doesnt help the overall DPS of a team, mostly just protection. Only problem with protection is nothing beats an Imbagon, making most of the command line useless.

Also, this thread might be better suited for Riverside Inn discussion.

Kosar The Cruel · Apr 26, 2010, 11:02 PM // 23:02

AHoM needs to be tied to Mysticism, that's an obvious one. Avatars in PvE should last a full 120secs, making them a bit more useful and not forcing you to take another skill slot to keep it up (Probably a little OP but, one can hope). AoB should have a 33% IAS instead of IMS (again, that's just IMO). Would also like to see some more IAS skills instead of the 2 current ones in Mysticism.
Hopefully a Wind Prayers... change? Just to make it more useful and bring it up to par with the usefulness of most of the Earth Prayers' skills.

Terrible Surgeon · Apr 26, 2010, 11:31 PM // 23:31

Dervs are still the best runners in PvE by far...and i can still farm smites solo in UW and deal a shit load of dmg by spamming WS in PvP...i just think a lot of people dont know how to use dervs nd paragons. TBH, i dont think anyone knows a build for these professions unless they go to wiki.

Skyy High · Apr 26, 2010, 11:53 PM // 23:53

Running isn't important to most people, so talking about who's the best runner is pointless. Solo farming smites in UW can be done by every profession to some degree, so that's also not exciting to talk about. This update is mainly focused on PvE, so I don't know what being able to spam WS contributes to the discussion.

It's been proven, over and over again, that any scythe build you can run on a derv can be run on either a sin or war, but better. That is the issue. It's not that dervs completely suck...they just don't do what they do as well as other professions do.

maxxfury · Apr 27, 2010, 12:21 AM // 00:21

Removing the damage type conversions from avatars would be a start, would give them an options to not just try and out power scythe sins/wars at their own game. And do it with avatars....*shrugs* would also enable synergy with orders/mop ect in phys heavy teams.

NerfHerder · Apr 27, 2010, 02:45 AM // 02:45

Ive given a little bit of thought on how to buff paragons. Which is pretty tricky. Believe it or not it could be easy to make a Paragon over powered.

I have a few ideas for PvE

Motivation

All the descriptions are the same as now

Song of Restoration
10e 1sec 10-15sr
Elite Chant. For 10 seconds, the next time each party member within earshot uses a Skill, that party member gains 45...97...110 Health.

I think decreasing the recharge time could help alot. 10 seconds is a long time in the middle of a battle.

Finale of Restoration
5e 1/2sec 5sr
Echo. For 10...30...35 seconds, whenever a Chant or Shout ends on target non-spirit ally, that ally is healed for 15...63...75 Health.

This skill combined with another Paragon has a huge potential to become exploited, as shouts are always ending. However, its not used much. Reducing activation and recharge time can really help to spread this to party members in need of heals.

Purifying Finale
Same change as Finale of Restoration

Signet of Synergy
1/2sec 5sr
Signet. Target other ally is healed for 40...88...100 Health. If you are not under the effects of an enchantment, you are also healed for 40...88...100 Health.

One of the main reasons Paragons are less desirable is the inablility to spot heal, against spike damage. Here again the description is the same but reducing the cast and recharge would help keep up.

Leadership

Hexbreaker Aria
6adrenaline 1sec
Chant. For 1..10 seconds, the next time each ally within earshot uses a skill, that ally loses 1 hex.

The other failing of the paragon is the inability to remove hexes. They only have one hex removal skill. Without totally renaming and classication, or making a new skill altogether a healthy buff would be just as good. Activating on a skill rather than spell would make it much more useful. Also, lowering adrenaline cost would make it more likely to be used. Making the duration tied to Leadership would keep this skill from being exploited by other classes.

Defensive Anthem
10e 1sec 15sr
Elite Chant. For 4...9...10 seconds, each party member within earshot has a 50% chance to block incoming attacks.

This skill is an elite version of Aegis and deserves to be treated as such. There should be a good reason to take it in certain situations. I lowered the recharge and got rid of the ends on attack. Your still going to get hit half the time and is only maintainable 2/3 the time.

Command

Command is really close to where it should be IMO, but should offer more partywide DPS. Afterall thats what a good command does is tell you when and where to hit.

Anthem of Guidance
4adrenaline 1sec
Elite Chant. (10 seconds.) Party members in earshot are unblockable with their next attack skill and do +5...17...20 damage.

To me adding extra damage really helps this skill deserve an elite position.

"Never Surrender!"
5e 15sr
Shout. (15 seconds.) Party members in earshot gain +1...4...5 Health regeneration and strike for +8...15 damage. Only affects party members below 75% Health.

It would be nice if the damage was applied to spells as well.

"Never Give Up!"
5e 15sr
Shout. (15 seconds.) Party members in earshot gain +1...2...3 Energy regeneration and strike for +8...15 damage. Only affects party members below 75% Health.

Here again adding more DPS and keeping the < 75% requirement would make the player more cautious on how to use it. These two skills would not stack DPS if used together. What im thinking here is for a good way to turn the tide of battle after a party wide spike.

"Find Their Weakness!"
10e 25sr
Shout. (5...17...20 seconds.) Allies in earshot deals +5...41...50 damage and inflicts Deep Wound condition (5...17...20 seconds) against target foe.

This skill might be pushing it a little, but would allow the Paragon to do some party wide spike damage indirectly.

I know its not perfect, just an idea of how I would like to see the Paragon buffed.

alexander92 · Apr 27, 2010, 08:19 AM // 08:19

really nice sugesstions Nerf Herder but i think some would be to op(never surender,never give up).About the dervish i also believe they should tie AOHM to mysticism and make the dmg physical maybe in order to synergize with orders;buff mysticism because dervish energy management is really poor unless you are willing to loose a lot of dmg,and maybe make most of the enchantments instant or at least 1/4 .The last problem is a really big one because untill i can put all my enchants up before a battle most of the foes are already dead,and it's even worse when you have to renew them in battle.Oh and a perma 25/33% ias would be nice.

Jade Zephyr · Apr 27, 2010, 11:09 AM // 11:09

The paragon was never meant to be a 'healer' and the whole Motivation attribute is designed as 'support'. Some of the spells/skill may or may not be weak but dont change the motivation paragons to viable healers solely to make the profession more popular.

Cuilan · May 04, 2010, 01:21 AM // 01:21

There's a few people talking about how the balances effect mesmer foes.
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Dementia_Titan <---
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Scyth...haos_(dervish)
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Madness_Titan
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Redhand_Simian
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Ferothrax

Improvavel · May 06, 2010, 12:53 PM // 12:53

I would get ride of the health gain of mysticism and instead make dervish attack skills deal 1-3 damage AoE (possibly quite wide area) per rank of mysticism per dervish enchantment on the dervish.

Use whatever caps required to keep damage in check, most likely tied to mysticism and scythe.